** Covid-19 Global Pandemic of 2020 ** - Main Discussion Thread

GOBLIN X

INVOLUNTARY full time LAB-RAT for MUSC
Brass Subscriber
When I researched my kin I noticed the three that fought in the American revolution all survived and lived into their late 80’s early 90’s. I was like great I’ll be stuck on this rock with the freaks and weirdos forever 🤣
both my grandparents recovered from the spanish flu. Mom never had any of the respiratory ailments . I never have either.
my grandparents had what they called "rabbit syndrome" mom was one of 17 living children, and she had 5 other brother's and sisters that passed in their first year.
 

WhiteWolf

Wolf Mage
Silver Subscriber
Huh. Way back in the early days of this thread, I pondered that perhaps this virus targeted specific genetic situations, and not others. And now, 2 out of 3 vaccines have a genetic (sorta) component.

Curious. Very curious. But I still don't KNOW anything, that I'd stake my life on, except that if I minimize the number of people I'm around - I'm a lot less likely to be infected in the first place regardless of any natural/vaccinated immunity.
 

The Branch Manager

Winter is coming. Forever.
Gold Subscriber
Attacking the source for a direct quote from close family (sister iirc) seems awfully.... democratic.

Point being, yes he was a crackhead pos, but as I'm understanding he went into the hospital AFTER the "vaxx" and nothing to do with a current drug "od" or other drug issues. A life long doper likely knows the limits before s/he OD's. Just my thoughts.

Sooner or later coincidences will cease to be. Funny how 3 states have stopped administering the J&J vaxx. Or maybe not if they keep getting scrubbed.

Nothing I've said has been absolute, I've got an open mind. Honest injun.
 

The Branch Manager

Winter is coming. Forever.
Gold Subscriber
How many countless times have doctors and scientists been wrong? A bunch. Aspirin during Spanish Flu comes to mind. Not saying they haven't been right a while bunch, but even Einstein was wrong and without the complete picture in his day. What we will learn in the coming decades will literally rewrite human history.
 

steadfast

We are going to win.
Brass Subscriber
Natural immunity certainly is a thing, I can't think that chinawarvirus is different. Same here. We all been around it but nothing in my own house yet.

I remember seeing a discovery channel show about a fellow who was given HIV positive blood. They tested, tested, and tested some more, but he never got it. So they did a deep dive on why, and it turns out he didn't have a receptor something in his blood to get it. And turns out that same receptor hasn't been present in his ancestors since they lived through the plague.
 

GOBLIN X

INVOLUNTARY full time LAB-RAT for MUSC
Brass Subscriber
Attacking the source for a direct quote from close family (sister iirc) seems awfully.... democratic.

Point being, yes he was a crackhead pos, but as I'm understanding he went into the hospital AFTER the "vaxx" and nothing to do with a current drug "od" or other drug issues. A life long doper likely knows the limits before s/he OD's. Just my thoughts.

Sooner or later coincidences will cease to be. Funny how 3 states have stopped administering the J&J vaxx. Or maybe not if they keep getting scrubbed.

Nothing I've said has been absolute, I've got an open mind. Honest injun.
junkies make mistakes all the time, because of not knowing the potency of how much the product was "cut" why places pass out NARCAN by the buttload down town Charleston.
 

Entropyfx

Doc
Brass Subscriber
I still wouldn't let anyone in my care eat an apple in a pool of 10k or 100k or 1M if even just 1 was poison.
But the funny thing is, we do it every day.

There is not a medication on this planet that if you gave it to 100 million people wouldn't have some nasty reactions and some death associated with it. Every single medicine, including OTC meds have adverse reactions. Every supplement, herb, you name it. I guarantee the RA meds you are on have killed multiple people. There is no treatment without risk. Just because most people stay blissfully ignorant of those risks, doesn't mean they aren't there. There a thousands of factors I have to try and take into account when I give any medication. And some people have harm from those meds. Anything you give on this scale will have some element of harm. That's why we weigh it against the harm we see without it.
 

The Branch Manager

Winter is coming. Forever.
Gold Subscriber
That's why we weigh it against the harm we see without it.
That's pretty much exactly my point. Even at 3% mortality, which it is no where near, so we can only guess at the harm that might have been done. The community controls have successfully slowed the spread, to a point where I feel no danger. I'm not being any cleaner that I was before, but I've always been a purell freak. There is not a vaccine like people think. It is gene modification, something which required an emergency authorization to distribute. We have no idea what the long term effects are, much less the near term. We can only guess. They had to suppress and threaten doctors not to provide the currently available therapeutics in order to get the emergency authorization. Anyone capable of critical thinking should be able to realize this is far from being determined safe. The test group is literally the entire population. Real genius idea right there, much like blackening the sun. Another of gates humanity killing ideas.
 

GOBLIN X

INVOLUNTARY full time LAB-RAT for MUSC
Brass Subscriber
But the funny thing is, we do it every day.

There is not a medication on this planet that if you gave it to 100 million people wouldn't have some nasty reactions and some death associated with it. Every single medicine, including OTC meds have adverse reactions. Every supplement, herb, you name it. I guarantee the RA meds you are on have killed multiple people. There is no treatment without risk. Just because most people stay blissfully ignorant of those risks, doesn't mean they aren't there. There a thousands of factors I have to try and take into account when I give any medication. And some people have harm from those meds. Anything you give on this scale will have some element of harm. That's why we weigh it against the harm we see without it.
and it changes over time. 1998 i was given vancomycin for meningitis. and again in 2013 for a stemulator pack breach. no ill effects.
FF to 2018 when the infection was introduced inside,they hit me with vancomycin, and i turned Ferrari red, big whelks and body temp hits 103. three different time, three different ways. with a IV reaction is less than a second........your body chemistry does change with other stimulus.hell ive been give meds before not for what it supposed to treat, but for its known side effects.
 

Inazone

Self-Determination or Death
Brass Subscriber
If I had COVID back in early/mid December of 2019, then it was a day or two of feeling like hot garbage (mostly body aches) of less duration than I normally experience with my usual twice-yearly cold. No underlying health problems. My wife, who has seasonal allergies, is on meds for migraines, is asthmatic and gets respiratory/sinus infections at the drop of a hat, thinks that she had it a second time, albeit with symptoms virtually identical to when she has the unfortunate overlap of a migraine and allergies. We are both blood type O+ and were regularly exposed to co-workers, kids, etc.

It gets me thinking about natural immunity, especially now that the wife, my parents and a fair number of my friends are vaccinated. I'm not opposed to getting the vaccine (well, maybe J&J) but I also almost never get a flu shot, yet almost never get the flu, or such a mild case as to think it's a cold. That makes me reluctant to get the annual flu shot, being that so many people end up having the flu only after the shot. I've had pneumonia twice in my life, less severe than most folks I guess, but I understand why people definitely don't want that as a result of COVID. Still, the more people in my life who do get vaccinated, the less inclined I am to do so, at least until there is more time for "experts" to identify risks associated with the different vaccines.
 

O:gweh

Domari Nolo
Forum Merchant
But the funny thing is, we do it every day.

That's why we weigh it against the harm we see without it.
Serious question:

Why aren't more Doc's treating mild cases with Ivermectin ( as an example) ? Why do you guys send people home if they have mild symptoms with little to no therapeutic treatment. Rolling the dice that they don't come back in bad shape.

I am certainly far from a Dr and I don't plan on playing one of TV, but everything I have researched says that Ivermectin has a great safety profile. We could probably all use a good de-worming every once in awhile. ( I know my wife gets uppity every time I drag my butt across the carpet. )

Do no harm, right ??

Unknown long term health effects vs great safety profile ???
Seems to be a no brainer to me .
 

Entropyfx

Doc
Brass Subscriber
We don't lose anything from an actual grass roots perspective. We have thrown a lot of things at this bug.

Think what you will about the CDC and about people like Fauchi, plenty of it I will agree on. The docs that are on the ground with this don't care what any politicians say or recommend. Our biggest focus is on doing interventions there is evidence for. When evidence comes we use it (steroids) when evidence goes away, we use stop using it.

I can't speak for any of my colleagues, but I would say most of us just want drugs that work, but we want data behind them that says they work and says we aren't going to harm people. To highlight Branch's post from earlier, "I wouldn't prescribe a drug if there was a 1 in 10000 chance of harm". The problem is for most diseases we have a good idea of what drugs work and which are harmful, based on years of studies and evidence. That is what we are used to. This model works great, until you have a pandemic and now people are dying and you need answers quickly. Everyone starts to throw around anecdotal treatments, saying I treated 20 people and they all did awesome. But was in 20 20 year Olds or 20 90 year Olds? Did they have cancer? Diabetes? Asthma? Did you control the variables?

It's really easy to say why don't you prescribe ivermectin, it's harmless! Until it isn't. Until you discover for COVID specifically maybe it increases odds of death 300%. Maybe it's a cure. But you have to remember just because it's safe most of the time, doesn't mean it's safe for this virus. Everything I give a patient I have to weigh a myriad of variables. There are some very harmless meds that will kill people in a heartbeat with the right condition. It's so damn easy to play armchair physician until you are the one killing patients because you didn't account for something. I went to school for a long damn time, trained with experiences physicians for a few more years, and have practiced almost 6 since, and I still worry every single day that I am going to fuck up and kill somebody because of something I missed. Every shift. Every doc I know has cases that keep them up at night. So our response to this is to try and learn everything we can, and look at studies. Studies aren't quick. Sometimes they are really promising until you put them to a large scale. The studies even on a decent scale on hydroxychloroquin were shit, yet everyone seemed to think it was a miracle drug just cause Trump mentioned it. I don't care who mentions it, I want data. Ivermectin had some semi-promising early data. It didn't look like it was gonna be an absolute game changer, but some promise. There are larger studies going now, and if they got published tomorrow saying we should do this, I'd be down in a heartbeat. But they could also come out and say they increase risk of death, or higher rates of ICU stay, whatever.

I have said this before, but I can't say it enough. Anecdotal medicine (based on small cases, what that one doctor tried) gets people killed. We look before we leap, and in this setting that's hard.

Take the vaccine, some unknowns, absolutely, but still larger phase 3/4 trials than almost any drug gets before it hits the market. As soon as the early data on steroids came through, people jumped on it. Remdesivir and convalescent plasma showed no benefit for mortality, or hospitalizations, but was associated with a reduction in reported sx with good safety data, so we keep doing it because it makes people feel better.

I don't care what party a doctor belongs to, and just like the rest of the country we're split about 50/50, if studies came out tomorrow showing ivermectin was a wonder drug we'd use it.

It is simply hard to convey to the average person the amount of things that can go wrong trying new meds, getting them wrong, and the amount of studying and work it takes to get here to make that decision. The sheer complexity is staggering. And I truly worry every single day of my career that something I do will get someone killed, and with what I do, the complexity and risk is incredibly high.